I can't. Let's look for other evidence. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. Thank you. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. And the cougar embodies that. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. John you're on the air. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Your support makes this news available to everyone. Let us know your story and share your photos. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. This is the exchange. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. So they're scary. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. So give us a call now. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. We're not in the woods. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. No that's a little bit outside the range. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Caller: Are probably. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Is this kind of a typical story. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Rick van de Poll: Yes. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. They don't know the direction they're going. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Select image for larger view. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. So there's even debate about that very subject. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. So now what's going on. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. The report came in from a conservation officer. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. New Hampshire Public Radio | I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. On a dirt road. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. So let's let's go to the phones. 44-N Links. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Thanks for a great thanks. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Really appreciate it. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. If so that's for us as an agency. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. You need a permit to have that. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Part II. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. 1957. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Less successful males roam further. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. These were normal everyday folks. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. What's going on. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Oh you saw him online. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. No I saw a camel. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Well thanks for sharing. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. John thanks. What kind of animal is that. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. So take care of this problem. One was in Shelton. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. And it's not really strong. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. So what a neat experience. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Well they are the same. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. I didn't see him online. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Like why would you want one wildlife. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. And you know all that. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Have you seen one. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Mike thanks for your call. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. Thanks very much. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. 1,470 likes. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. You saw what you saw. What do you think that. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets.